These Fukken Feelings Podcast©
Are you tired of feeling alone in your emotional struggles? Tune in to These Fukken Feelings Podcast! Hosted by mental health advocates, our weekly show explores life's ups and downs, from relationships and anxiety to loss and happiness. With honest conversations, you'll get practical tips for managing emotions and living your best life. Join us every week for inspiration, motivation, and a bit of humor. Subscribe now and start feeling better today! Note: Our podcast is not a substitute for professional advice. If you're in crisis, please contact emergency services immediately.
These Fukken Feelings Podcast©
Finding Joy in Uncertainties: Pat Wetzel on Overcoming Disability, Mental Health, and the Power of Shared Experiences | Season 3 Episode 339
Ever wondered how shared experiences can transform lives? Join us as we embark on an emotional journey with our special guest Pat Wetzel, who shares her incredible story of overcoming disability and finding joy in the unexpected—like flying gliders. Crystal, Micah, and Jonathan Niziol set the stage by revealing their favorite reads, which include a stirring mix from Arthur C. Clarke to T-Boz’s poetry. This casual but insightful chat paves the way for a deep exploration of personal growth and the power of storytelling.
Get ready to be inspired by stories from the Iconic LeadHer award show in Atlanta, where achievements were celebrated and connections were made. Pat opens up about how her passion for flying became a crucial part of her mental health recovery, illustrating how even the smallest steps can lead to monumental changes. We delve into the significance of self-care practices, from meditation to exercise, and the importance of finding what works best for you—especially when dealing with life’s big challenges like cancer.
From humorous anecdotes about misunderstood New York landmarks to profound reflections on life’s unpredictability, this episode is a tapestry of heartfelt stories and practical advice. Whether you’re grappling with mental health issues or seeking ways to celebrate life’s small victories, you’ll find valuable insights here. Tune in and remember, you’re never alone in your journey—every step, no matter how small, brings you closer to inner peace and personal growth.
#MentalHealthAwareness #PersonalGrowth #Storytelling #SelfCare #OvercomingAdversity #Inspiration #HealingJourney #IconicLeadHer #FlyingGliders #CancerSurvivor #InnerPeace #LifeLessons #EmotionalWellbeing #PodcastLife #TheseFukkenFeelingsPodcast
you don't have to be positive all the time. It's perfectly okay to feel sad, angry, annoyed, frustrated, scared and anxious. Having feelings doesn't make you a negative person. It doesn't even make you weak. It makes you human and we are here to talk through it all. We welcome you to these fucking feelings podcast, a safe space for all who needs it. Grab a drink and take a seat.
Speaker 2:The session begins now guys, welcome to these fucking feelings podcast. I am micah. Got producer crystal over here with me. Hello our co-host, jonathan ne hey everybody. You might recognize him from any other little fantasy, little porn books that you ever read, not romance novels.
Speaker 3:We keep it above ground here. None of that 18 plus stuff.
Speaker 2:He's 50 Shades of Grey, jonathan Neisel. I knew I seen him somewhere and our special guest for this evening is is it Pat Wetzel? Mm it, pat wetzel? Okay, so me and crystal was arguing and I think she was messing with me, trying to get in my head, so jonathan had been doing this thing before we got started. You got something for us today, jonathan sure do so, pat.
Speaker 3:We like to start with something a little bit lighter, lighter hearted, or something just kind of off topic, although this is very on topic and I want to ask you, besides your own book, bump in the Road which we will talk about at length in a bit.
Speaker 4:What is your favorite book?
Speaker 4:The City and the Stars by Arthur C Clarke it was written back in the late 40s or 50s, 1940s or 50s and it's a science fiction novel. It's ultimately a novel of two societies. One society is very narcissistic and pleasure oriented. They're not quote unquote born. They come out of the computer at random intervals so that the composition of society changes over time, but nothing really changes because they all hold the same belief systems and fears, and those beliefs and fears keep them entrapped in this artificial world. But the creators of this town decided every now and then to throw what they call a unique into the population mix, and that unique has never been born before and does not share the same fears and concerns that everyone else does. They're essentially a change agent. Then there is another society that is very human, more agrarian, oriented, telepathic and lives to be several hundred years, but they die. They live a human life. And this is the story of one unique his name is Alvin who changes the destiny of these two societies forever.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's very cool. I have to look that up. It's incredible that that was written back then and it sounds like it's still very relevant in today's society.
Speaker 4:You know, you look back at a lot of the science fiction writers of the, say, 40s, 50s, 60s. They really were very prescient and they had ideas that are manifesting today.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's fascinating. Crystal, what's your favorite book Before you?
Speaker 2:go, crystal, I feel like we got scammed because she was real prepared for that answer you know I think they taught. Me too. Pat was real prepared. I was like what do you got?
Speaker 3:the book in front of you, did you write I ain't got nothing like that, but she was like the coloring, the barbie coloring book I just bought.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my favorite book um, the child called it oh, that was.
Speaker 3:I read that in high school, that was whoa, that was some real real. That was crazy. That was some real deep stuff. That was yeah, yeah micah what? About you, my friend I don't know no love beyond the battle.
Speaker 4:We'll come back to you other than my book.
Speaker 2:Um, no, really, uh, I don't know. I feel like I've read so many great books to say one is like, because I can go back and read any book, I ever read and read it again, so it's hard to give one answer to that. I feel like I kind of need to give an answer. You know what T-Biz from TLC wrote? A book of poetry. Oh, really yeah, and so that was. It was pretty cool. Her poems are very, very, very, very cool, very cool.
Speaker 3:And I would say mine is how to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie, Again written in like the 1930s or 40s, and just about society, how to treat people better, all stuff that translates to today. So, and for the listeners, just a heads up coincidentally, Pat and I just did I did her podcast like two weeks ago, so we're like best friends, We've been writing letters back and forth and all that kind of stuff, so we go way back. Yeah, exactly you said letters.
Speaker 3:Micah, do you want to get started or do you want me to get started?
Speaker 2:Did you complete your thought?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah, Actually I wanted to ask you here.
Speaker 2:I just wanted to get your answer. Do you have a favorite book? 48 Laws of Power is actually my favorite book and she was trying to use it on me the whole weekend. She got me to put all her bed together, furniture together. I don't do no manual work, pat, none whatsoever. And I'm over here like no, this screw goes here.
Speaker 2:I'm like how I know this shit. She tricked me into thinking I was a man anyway. Well, yes, pat. One thing that we like to do here is we actually ask our guests to introduce themselves, because we feel like no one can tell your story the way that you can.
Speaker 4:So, if you don't mind, tell audience a little bit about yourself well, uh, I have a podcast bump in the and a book by the same name Bump in the Road 15 Stories of Courage, hope and Resilience. Bump came about as a result of a bump in the road, and I've had many bumps throughout life and I think this one that precipitated the podcast was what really got me thinking. How do people navigate life's bumps was what really got me thinking how do people navigate life's bumps. What happened was I was traveling and I had a travel blog. I'd won awards for it and 2020 came around and, obviously, travel shut down.
Speaker 4:I was in Santa Fe, so I hunkered down. I had planned to actually make this travel series into a film series. That was not going to happen now and I had arranged a great deal of financing for it. I mean, I was ready to roll, but I didn't have the cash in my hot little hand. It was just pledged and even if I did, I would have had to return it since we couldn't travel.
Speaker 4:And, contemplating all this, I thought how do people navigate these bumps in the road? I've been through illness. How do people navigate these bumps in the road? I've been through illness. I've been through, aside from illness, cancer, divorce, a lot of flying lessons, which is a topic unto itself, and I just kind of was flat footed at that point. What do I do? So I created the podcast Bump in the Road with the idea that I would learn from other people's experiences, and at first I had no idea what I was doing. I didn't know if I could get anybody on the show. You know all the usual concerns that go with starting something like this, and the podcast has done wonderfully well. From the podcast came the book. The book just won an award, so I guess we're rolling now.
Speaker 3:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:Sorry, so what award did you win?
Speaker 4:It is called the Coalition of Visionary Resources. I won a bronze award. It was interesting. I had an email and I looked at it and I thought well, I know I entered that, but they never contacted me, so I just scrolled right past it. And today I actually went back and looked at it and I realized that I had won an award.
Speaker 2:So you just found out today, so there's even more congratulations, thank you. So now, did the book come from interviews you had or knowledge that you gained on the podcast? Is that what made you decide to write the book and to share it?
Speaker 4:on the book yeah, this first book, each chapter actually has a common theme. I tell one of my stories from aviation, just to keep it consistent, and then show how that relates to one of the stories of my guests. I'm working on the next book now, which is Bump in the Road, strong Women. That's going to be organized a little bit differently. I'm not going to tell my stories, but I thought for the first book it's a way for people to get to know who I am.
Speaker 3:Fantastic. There's something that I took from our podcast, Pat, that I want to start with, because it was just I loved it so much. I said I, when we had a pre-call, you mentioned it, and then, when we had a podcast, mentioned it and I would like for you to explain to our audience.
Speaker 2:Sorry, before you go there. Jonathan was just on Pat's podcast. We talked about a brain show. I just wanted to make sure people understood that part.
Speaker 4:It hasn't been published yet, but it will be soon.
Speaker 3:Yes, so can you explain to them the quitters, campers and climbers?
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's a great story. It's not my story.
Speaker 4:It belongs to one of my guests, eric Weinmayer. Eric is a truly remarkable person. At 16, he went blind, so you can imagine the anger, the rage, the isolation, everything that goes with an experience like that. Well, he went on to climb Everest blind, the seven summits, and he spent eight years training to raft the Colorado River Rapids, which he did. He also started a fabulous not-for-profit called NoBarriersUSAorg and it focuses on outward-bound type of experiences for the disability and veterans community. Fantastic organization if you're looking to support anyone.
Speaker 4:Eric tells a story and it's a great story. He divides the world into three groups. Now these groups are fluid. We've all been in each of them and we've all moved between them. The first group are quitters. That's self-evident. The vast majority of people are in the middle group. They're campers. They do not want to change the status quo, they do not want to get out of their comfort zone and, in all fairness to them, maybe they've been so beat up by life they just won't put their head outside the foxhole anymore. Very few people are climbers and I am personally fascinated by what it takes to go from being a camper to a climber, because we all have it within us. But what is it that some of us access it more often than others, and I would really wish for everybody to be in that climber category more often than not, because that's where you're living a realized life.
Speaker 3:It's so true. I just I love that. When I heard that, I was like that is incredible. And, like Pat said too, we've all been in each one of those camps and we've all been there. And then, and if, if you say you haven't, then you're just lying to yourself.
Speaker 2:And some of us go back there yeah for sure.
Speaker 3:And then we keep going back and whatever and have to pull ourselves out of it and stuff and that's you know. It's just an incredible idea and incredible mindset and stuff and how you change from one and move on to the next, and that just really stuck with me.
Speaker 4:And I wanted to make sure we talked about that. Yeah, and I hope in my next book, strong Women, I'll be going a little deeper in terms of what are these traits that these remarkable people have that help them pull themselves forward like that? Because we all have them within us. It's just a matter of accessing them and also being aware of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I actually just went to. So I was asked to come to an award show in Atlanta and it was called Iconic Lead Her and until I got there it never dawned on me. I was just like it was lead and then you know H-E-R, but it didn't dawn on me like that all the recipients were women and this was all about women. I just was like why they spell it like that.
Speaker 4:It's crazy, but I'm gonna spell it like that.
Speaker 2:It's crazy, but I'm gonna spell it like that and then I walk into this room and I realized, oh wow, like all the people who won awards or who are nominees or being honored that night honorees, I guess we should say were all women. And um, of course, I acted my normal self, which means I was a complete fool, and and I realized that we're sitting in a room with two women one was a ninth grade uh student who was receiving a presidential lifetime achievement award. Wow, right, like being pinned at this award show. And I'm like, what the hell did I walk into? How y'all gonna let me act up the way I was acting up, and I'm in the world, you know, and I'm thinking and I'm in the room with two presidential lifetime award winners Right, they corrected this.
Speaker 2:And now, baby, you here with five, thinking, and I'm in the room with two presidential lifetime award winners right, they corrected me. They said, nah, baby, you here with five. I was like, okay, get it, but it was just really inspiring to see women recognize that kind of way, but to also, you know, kind of smack me, you know, into like reality, like that. Wow, this is something we need to do and I'm glad that I was a part of it.
Speaker 4:I think anytime when we can relate to other people who are like us, whatever that means for any individual, it's really inspiring to see people do well.
Speaker 2:It is, it is definitely yeah. And I was inspired. I was like, wow, this is crazy. I'm texting during the episode, not supposed to be texting. You know breaking rules, you know how you know do, pat, when you're rebellious.
Speaker 4:I have authority problems too.
Speaker 2:I know you did. It's in your name.
Speaker 3:I think it's like you said, pat, when you said it's people like us because it puts a hope, or you know it's like, oh, if they can do it, then I can. You know it's like it's that uh ability to relate to others and absolutely.
Speaker 4:It's that relatability that is so key and, um, you know, we can relate on human qualities. We can relate in so many different ways. That's why I think stories are so powerful, because we not only do we relate to the individual, hopefully, but we resonate with their message. And when we resonate with their message, a story becomes experiential. It's not just a flat story, it's a story that has dimension to it, emotional dimension, and that's what really inspires us to change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right. And I kind of just want to put a disclaimer out there. When we say people like us, we are talking about people who are healing, because I know that if somebody is watching right now and they're thinking I'm like not like any of them and no one could ever relate to what I'm going through.
Speaker 2:and you know all they passed this and I still don't know what I'm doing and I'm like, yeah, we've been there. You know that's part of the say so when we're saying people like this, even though you may not feel like you're a person like us right now, because you are seeing healing on the screen, you can be there and that's what we're saying. We're saying come on over, because there is somebody out there that can relate to you. There's so many methods, so many people to talk to, so many organizations to look into. If you have a specific problem that you think no one else has, there is somebody that you can talk to. There's a method for you. So I just want to let you know that you are still a person like us, right?
Speaker 4:no, that is so true. You know, across all the podcasts, what I see are really the same problems or the same issues, but they're just expressed differently because everyone's life is unique, definitely. But we, but, we can all feel, say, isolation, we can all feel shame, we can all feel joy or love. Our stories may be different, but our feelings are the same.
Speaker 2:Definitely, and then it's okay to laugh about it. You know, it was like learning that. That was like such a big lesson for me. Now I probably laugh too much, but that's because I realized that you can like laugh at some of this stuff. Some of this stuff is so, you know, horrible that it's funny. You know it's like, yeah, it's like a dog, that's so ugly, he's cute. Trauma is the same way.
Speaker 4:Well, also after a point you have to laugh because you can't let it bring you down.
Speaker 2:Right, I did want to ask a question. I'm sorry, Jonathan, so I can't see if your finger going up. So you legit have to stop me because I messed up the screens. So you know me.
Speaker 1:Did you hear?
Speaker 2:that everybody.
Speaker 1:He messed up the screens.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he's just being nice, Crystal.
Speaker 2:Don't worry, it's still you Look. No, it's okay, because even though she's a producer, she's not the video editor, so I can still get that to come out. But, Pat, so we're talking about bumps in the road, and I'm pretty sure that before you started to think of bumps in the road as bumps in the road, you had a lot of bumps in the road. Is there anything that you've learned now that you wish you would have known back then?
Speaker 4:You will come out the other side when you're in the middle of it. You don't know that, you can't see it. I mean, you're not sure you, first of all, you may not even see a light at the end of the tunnel. If you do, you'll probably assume it's an oncoming train. So I think that just knowing that, wherever you are, put one one step, one foot in front of the other, one step at a time, you will come through to a newer, wiser reality yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:I mean, I know, like when, when we talked about an art, like you said, we're all, we can all share that and anybody listening and stuff like that we can, we can all share in that. And, like, like I said, you know we've done a lot of work and a lot of healing but we're still, you know, we're still in it. You know we're still learning. That's why I love doing these podcasts being on, you know, podcasts like your own, pat just because it's a constant learning and very cathartic growing space where you're just constantly learning from others and taking away from others and and really learning how to expand your uh, your tool chest and and being reminded and reiterating the fact that you are going to come out the other side.
Speaker 4:So, and you know every, we all feel so alone when we go through these difficulties. We think we are the only one in the world experiencing it, and you are having this experience, but you're not the only one. Everyone has difficult, almost everyone, I'll say, has difficult experiences. I actually, I was out to dinner with some people and I asked this one couple what their biggest bump in the road had been, and the wife turned to me and she said I don't think we've had any. And I thought you must've been unconscious your entire life.
Speaker 2:I know you got so many. You don't know they bumps.
Speaker 4:I mean, I don't think that's possible.
Speaker 1:So sorry.
Speaker 3:Christy go ahead.
Speaker 2:I want to know about the flying, because I won't even go in a plane, christy was like forget the mental health stuff, right, let's talk about how you was like, forget the mental health stuff, right, let's talk about how you do. Well, the flying is mental health stuff.
Speaker 4:Because what preceded it was a decade of disability. I went from Wall Street to being very disabled. I mean, talk about an identity crisis. Oh my God. I got divorced. Just throw some more on there, please. And while I was going through this divorce, I took a trip cross country to just visit people thinking in back of my head what am I going to do? Where am I going to go? I've been out of the workforce a decade disabled. What am I going to do?
Speaker 4:And I'd rented a car in San Francisco. It was a white Mustang convertible. So I'm driving up through wine country. You know the winding roads, the beautiful vineyards, the perfect rose along the side, wind in the hair, sun. And I'm driving and I get up to Calistoga, which back then was kind of a run-down town. There was an airport that intersected the main street in Calistoga and I thought that's kind of weird. So I went over and they had glider rides and I went for a ride. I didn't think twice about it. But when I got back east I heard about a group of lawyers that were flying gliders on the weekend. So I invited myself out for a three-day weekend and I flew every single day and I was hooked. And from there that led. Well, we have a little bit of time on this podcast. I was hooked.
Speaker 4:Sam who taught me to fly was a naval aviator during World War II, so I had incredible training and he had several gliders, one of which was a 126, which is a low-performance, single-seat airplane, so you have to just get in it and fly it. Nobody can really teach you to do this. That's an interesting experience. But I showed up at the field one day and, quote unquote, my 126 was not there. It had been pledged for an air show. So I was furious. It was the best soaring day of the season. It was beautiful Clouds popping everywhere, which meant there was lift. Clouds are an indicator of lift and in an airplane without an engine you need to find sources of lift.
Speaker 4:So I'd heard some guys on the radio flying from a field about an hour south and I decided I would go down and check this out. I get to the airport, big sign Go away, no trespassing, you are not welcome. This means you and I pulled in and I was stunned. What? Three, four runways, a gas depot, multiple hangars, and on the grid were 20 beautiful, high-performance white fiberglass sailplanes gliders we call them sailplanes in the racing community Just lined up one after the other on the grid. I'd never seen anything like it and I watched them take off and my heart, my heart just went with those planes, watching them come up off the ground and disappear into the sky. And I was stuck on the ground so I was just furious. I wrote a check, I joined on the spot. Whether I was welcomed or not, I joined on the spot.
Speaker 2:Here's my check.
Speaker 4:And then I found out that the plane situation there is probably worse than it was back at where I'd been flying. So that sent me on a quest to buy a plane. And I ended up buying a plane with a pedigree. It was built for a world-renowned aviator, carl Streedick, to fly in the world. And this plane was just incredible. She flew fast, she was fun to fly, it was just. I really didn't appreciate for many, many years, until I started flying a lot of other planes, how wonderful that plane was. And the plane is known as Whiskey Oscar because Whiskey Oscar are contest letters. So if I refer to Whiskey Oscar I'm referring to this wonderful plane that I ended up owning. So that took me from the East Coast to the West. I decided to take her cross country one year, had her in the show in Oshkosh, flew along the way and ended up moving to the Tahoe area, which is one of the best places in the world to soar.
Speaker 3:Wow, is that like one of the planes where it's a bar and then has like no, that's a hang?
Speaker 4:glider, okay, okay. And then you um, I'll send you a video, actually, but these are, uh, like whiskey. Oscar was a 15 meter ship. 15 meters of wingspan, 50 feet, that's huge, and they go up to 20, some odd meters of wingspan. She's just an exquisite, partly handcrafted plane of white fiberglass and you actually sit in the plane, you know you have a canopy and everything, and get towed aloft and then you release and you have to go find sources of lift to fly and as you get better at this, it becomes a sport where you fly cross country, you fly speed triangles and things like that, and you can fly for altitude. Getting over 30,000 feet on a good day at Minden was pretty easy, but I think the record must be somewhere up around 50,000 or so. Wow, wow, that's incredible.
Speaker 2:Luckily, we have a really good editor, so I'm pretty sure he's going to show you guys some pictures of what it really is, I'll send you some videos.
Speaker 2:That'll help a lot. Yeah, definitely, I'm good, I'm not going to get into it. I barely want to get into an airplane that got an engine. You know what I mean? I'd be like, look, I called my doctor. I'd be like I'm traveling. She'd be like, okay, send in the prescription. Like they already know, we don't even got to have much conversation. I got to fly tomorrow. Okay, go pick it up.
Speaker 4:It was really remarkable about this. I flew for about 15 years. The thing that was really remarkable for me is I went from a decade of disability to a decade of these wild adventures, and I was. I had a guest on my podcast recently and she has MS and she's very adventuresome and she talked about the two sides of this coin of having disability and yet wanting to have adventure, and in listening to her story I realized that was my story too. I went from having disability to wild adventure and I think having such extreme experiences on both sides of the coin was really interesting.
Speaker 2:I actually turned to. Art was my. You know I didn't necessarily have a disability, but you know I went through a lot of trauma and craziness with my cancer. It was a 15 year battle. It was ridiculous, but to me it was finding the beauty in life and that kind of turned me to art. So now, like I will travel just to go see some art and I like modern art, so like I like going to see graffiti and like street artists and those kind of things. But yeah, like I'll travel, they'd be like, oh, they're doing a graffiti convention in Miami.
Speaker 4:I'm like, oh they're going through cancer, the one thing that I really came away with was joy. I had an intense sense of joy that I found in the smallest things in life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, me, it was love. Love was kind of like the whole. It kind of brought it back to not realizing how much love I had in my life and just how much love I had to give. But that kind of was my cancer lesson.
Speaker 3:Before we move on from the flying path. So you said you've used the past tense. Does that mean you're not flying anymore?
Speaker 4:I'm not. However, I'm moving in September and I'm moving to an area that has some pretty active soaring groups, so I've been just indulging on YouTube videos about cross-country soaring thinking, you know, I think I would like to get into this again, but in a different way. Owning my own plane and I mean owning a plane is such a responsibility. The wings are heavy. They have to get locked in place by these huge bolts in the fuselage. You have to be sure that everything's always set up properly. It's a lot of responsibility and I'm thinking maybe there's some other ways I can approach it, because I really miss being in the air.
Speaker 3:It must be very I don't know it must be a very interesting experience. The two of us who have been in a plane besides you, not, crystal there's a lot of noise and it's, you know, a lot, a lot of it's going on, and you're up there soaring and you're in a glider and there's no engine and you're just, it's just peace. And can you tell us more about that? Like, how does that? How does that feel? You also have to relinquish control, right, because you're being taken with the wind and obviously you have controls but you're not able to just like. Can you just tell?
Speaker 1:us more about that.
Speaker 2:You have total control until you don't that part, and so you got to decide tree or water.
Speaker 4:No, but a plane flies because of the pressure differential on the wing. Whether it's a big jet or a glider, the aerodynamic principles are exactly the same, but you have total control over your direction. What you don't have control over is your altitude, and you have to make smart decisions about your altitude. So soaring is really a great metaphor for life, because it's about finding invisible sources of lift. To go from point A to point B, and then from point B to point C, and you may have different sources of lift. You'll learn about new sources of lift and your experience starts to pay off.
Speaker 2:But you know what? You also probably have a lot of I ain't going to say a lot of failures, but a lot of times where things don't work out, and it's okay because you continue to move on past that, right.
Speaker 4:Well, assuming you move on past that, yeah, I've had a few that made me really stop and wonder about what I was doing.
Speaker 2:So kind of like life, but not everybody.
Speaker 4:Well, no, it's a metaphor for life. It's a little out there in terms of being a sport, I'll give you that, but I think all sports are great because we we learn so much about ourselves playing sports.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I kind of would think that it's beautiful, kind of like Jonathan saying, like a guy of a beautiful thing, I'll never try it, so I'll just take your word for it, but I would imagine that it's beautiful and it probably would. You know, I saw bald Eagle yesterday. I was impressed by that. I was like, okay, eagle.
Speaker 4:Actually, when you're flying on the East coast at least you often see hawks and they always know how to find the lift. So if you can see a hawk, you know there's going to be lift where they are.
Speaker 2:So follow the hawk.
Speaker 4:Okay, yeah, but they outfly you, they leave you in the dust really quickly.
Speaker 2:Oh, so they're like, they're going to come at me. I know, me too. I was thinking like do they try to eat you? And stuff Like, ooh live bait.
Speaker 4:No, you do not want to collide with a bird. That would be really God See there's too many factors.
Speaker 2:My brain can't think that many things at one time, or I'm just going to overthink everything. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Plus, you got to find a place for your fruit rolls, micah. You got to find, like, an extra spot where you can fly that Okay.
Speaker 2:So, pat, I'm one of those people that have been through a lot of trauma, so I'm always going to think of the worst possible situation. However, I'm always going to survive too. So like, if a plane crash, I already know I'm just going to collect everybody's wallet because I'm going to make it. You know what I'm saying. So they're not going to use their cash. I might as well get it, but yeah, that's kind of like where my healing is. Like I know the worst possible situation, but I do know I'm going to make it through it, kind of like with you. You know.
Speaker 4:That's a really good point, because part of it when I went in, when I started flying I call it my life wish, death wish period. It wasn't that I wanted to die, it's that I desperately wanted to live. And I think when you go into a situation after having been through a lot of trauma or whatever you know, and I'm going to say you don't care if you live, it's not that you have a death wish, you are not suicidal, but you just let go of that fear. It's amazing what lives on the other side, will you?
Speaker 1:say that that is or that was or is your happy place of, after going through all them bumps in the road, like that's the reason why you started flying.
Speaker 4:Flying has certainly been a happy place. Meditation's a happy place for me. My photography is a happy place. Talking about art, I stumbled into photography and I'm totally hooked. Okay, so I think there are lots of happy places and different places in different periods of your life too yeah, I'm in my lazy phase.
Speaker 2:I don't want to do nothing, I want everybody else to do it for me, and I just want to appreciate that work you can be a camper for a while.
Speaker 4:It's cool.
Speaker 3:He says that though but, he's a very, very driven person and he's always moving forward. He says that, but don't let him fool you, because he's he's a climber. He's always looking at the next thing and he's like level up, like how can we level it up?
Speaker 2:But you know what Tui, I'm really big on like seeing other people level it up right now too, Like I'm enjoying the work of other people. You know, like I have my favorite mental health podcast that I watch and I listen to, you know, and people that I follow, and just cool things like that. So it was like you know, sometimes it's like okay, I just want to watch.
Speaker 4:Sometimes you have to take that break. I was kind of a vegetable all weekend. I did get to the gym, but I really didn't do much of anything noteworthy and I needed the downtime. Today, after months of thinking about this, I was really ready. I just started writing on the next book and it just came right out of me. But I needed that down time, that time off for everything to kind of arrange itself in my brain definitely no, for sure.
Speaker 3:So you mentioned photography, that. What kind of photography are you doing?
Speaker 4:uh, all sorts of things. It started when, um, when I was traveling. One day I was on a beach and it was sunrise and there were these little sanderlings, you know that wander right along the surf edge and they're so cute. They run up to the water and they run back and I got a picture of one of them and it had this beautiful bokeh, which are those like kind of golden orbs that you see in a photo in the back, and looking at that picture now it's not that great a picture, but at the time where I was it was a really good picture and it got me thinking, hmm, what can I do with this? And kind of one thing led to another. I got into better camera gear, I met a Nikon ambassador and ended up going to Africa with three professional photographers. So it's been kind of an unfolding set of experiences in terms of just learning.
Speaker 2:Wow, I feel like your message is just try shit. Like, just try shit. You're like, just try. I kind of will. I ain't gonna try that gladdening shit, I feel fine. Anything else, though, I'm cool with it. I'm trying, but like I'm one of those crazy people Like I, I won't get on the roller coaster, but I'll get on it if it gets you wet, you know you put some water in there.
Speaker 4:I'm like water, that's actually a theme for my podcast. It would it's just say, yes, right, do it. You don't regret what you didn't do right, right.
Speaker 2:Is that a theme in your book as well?
Speaker 4:The regret part. No, the just say yes, yes.
Speaker 2:Cool. I was wondering. I was like you know what's the? You know people could pick up your book right now. What would they get out of it?
Speaker 4:What you would get out of it is a series of stories and some of the my wisdom that came out of those stories.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:That's wonderful. You mentioned traveling and you mentioned the travel blog, but you had a two-part question. One, how many continents have you been to? And two, if you had to pick one place, what's the one place? Or I guess the situation that you've been in that had the most profound effect on you. I know it's probably a really hard question Somebody who's traveled a lot but myself but how many continents?
Speaker 4:And then that other question Okay, I've been traveling since I was a little kid. Continents Europe, North America, South America I haven't been to Asia yet Africa. So four continents.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 4:I haven't been to Australia yet either, but it's on my list. Profound experience Wow, you know what the most profound experience was? As a kid, I spent a lot of time in Paris and I lived about an hour or so outside of New York City, but I knew Paris better than New York and it was always one of my father's favorite places. My father died, oh, 30 or 35 years ago now, and I was in Paris back I don't remember when sometime in the 90s first time I'd revisited it in a while and I did some of the really touristy things that I usually didn't do, and one of them was I went up to the top of the Eiffel Tower one night and I just started crying. The tears just came out of me and it brought up so many wonderful memories and memories associated with my father. So that was probably even though it's a place that was familiar that experience was really very deep.
Speaker 3:Wow, that's wonderful.
Speaker 2:I actually lived in Paris, too, for a little while and never went to the Eiffel Tower.
Speaker 4:Well, you know what? I had a friend. She was Czechoslovakian and she had emigrated to Canada and I ended up meeting her in Connecticut and she loved to do touristy things. Oh, it drove me crazy. She wanted to do every touristy thing on the map and I'd be like, oh God, do we have to do this? But you know what? She was right. The touristy things are really fun.
Speaker 2:They are. Yeah, I'm a New Yorker, new York City, new Yorker, and we never went to the Empire State Building. Yeah, never went to see the uh statue of liberty like in person, like I seen on tv, um, but it's like legit a train ride, you know it's like fool is right there and um, and like a lot of those things.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, like if I went to the world trade center, it was because I worked on the 12th floor, you know, but it was like it wasn't because it was the world trade center. Um, so it is pretty funny to say that, because I had people too when they got on. I still have a place in the city and when they want to come visit me, that's what they want to do, like oh, let's do these touristy things. And you know, like last year I did a boat ride and we go by the statue of liberty and I'm like, wow, this is really dope, right, yeah, so I kind of get that complete I find a lot of times when we live somewhere, we take for granted these things.
Speaker 3:We're like I'll get around to it, I'll get around to it and, like you know, we don't necessarily get around to it. That's one of the things. Before I moved to texas from toronto, I was like I want to do all those touristy things because you know, I don't look back and be like I wish I'd done this or seen that and whatever, and I just spent like two weeks before I moved and just doing those touristy things to make sure I checked them off my list. And yeah, I think, like you said, like we're just so busy with our hustle and our everyday like especially new york is such a grind, you know, just your go, go, go and you're like I'll get around to the empire state and same. I lived there for modeling a couple times and I never went to empire state, never went to statue of liberty, like, didn't do those things. But I haven, haven't either I wish Right.
Speaker 1:I mean I thought I did. I went to a cheesecake factory, but I guess that's all over the place.
Speaker 2:You did something. Huh, she was like I went to the cheesecake factory we all have.
Speaker 3:That podcast that I hosted with personal trainer Crystal's like I went to this place. It's a nice little place, it's called the Cheesecake Factory. We're like yeah, we know, they're everywhere. She's like oh, I thought it was no Crystal, they're literally everywhere.
Speaker 4:I thought it was only in New York.
Speaker 3:It's not just your factory Like it's everybody's Cheesecake Factory.
Speaker 4:But you went to the one in New York.
Speaker 2:Right, there you go, well, in Albany, it's still New York. We're upstate New York, crystal and I, right now, are upstate New York, and, dad, you made me forget what I was going to say. I thought it was cool Going to a cheesecake factory. Like I have some cheesecake, like you could buy it from walmart now. Now, pat, let's go back to your, your podcast and and your book. Um, what would be a core audience, what would be a good person that should listen to your podcast? Or you know what would be your enticement into getting people to listen to? Bump in the road?
Speaker 4:Anyone who has a question or is vaguely conscious in their life. That's a lot of people and you know I sometimes I think I go too broad in that regard but then, like with the books, I can go deeper, like I can do bump in the road veterans, bump in the road strong women, bump in road cancer for more narrow audiences. But I think that there's so much wisdom across all these life experiences and I really enjoy the variety and I'm always amazed at how I relate to totally different people and it's a pretty deep connection. When you're talking about trauma or difficult things, you really get it and I think other people help us see our own story.
Speaker 2:Right or allow us to see it you know, some people don't think they have a story until they see it in somebody else and it's like, oh wow, because that was going to be my next question. You know, one thing that we often hear and I kind of always like to get guest perspective on is the people who feel like, oh, there's somebody out there that has it worst, so now they minimize whatever it is they're going through because there's somebody out there that has it worse. What do you say to a person who has that mentality?
Speaker 2:I'm going to add that there but needs to heal.
Speaker 4:I think that whatever you're facing is difficult for you and I don't think you should judge or compare, because we're all very different and I really dislike the way we're such a hierarchical society. Do you have more likes? Do you have this or that? What's better? I think that life is nonlinear. It weaves and it goes back on itself. Sometimes it goes forward, sometimes not, and I don't think that you should compare what you're going through. I think that you should look for the wisdom in what you're going through. My personal mantra on a daily basis is what can I learn?
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, actually I was having a conversation with somebody yesterday, somebody I met at the Iconic Leaders event and we were texting and I'm not going to give her name because I'm going to tell the story a little bit but she had a stroke a few weeks ago and it was crazy, she had a stroke a few weeks ago and still put together this most amazing event and we were kind of texting yesterday and she wants to get together and work on some things together and I was like okay, you know, you need to heal, yada, yada, yada. And she was like no, I got to do it now. And I'm like okay, but you need to take time to heal, like I'm not telling you what to do. But I was like you know well, when I, you know, had my situation with cancer, that was the one lesson I learned. And I'm like you is missing the whole point.
Speaker 2:Now you got me feeling bad that like I'm over here rubbing in your face like I had cancer, but I'm like you're missing the point. The point is to take your time, like it's okay to like get better, it's okay to take care of yourself, it's okay Like we need you whole. And I feel like you're trying to rush back to work. But you know, in that situation too, I feel like who am I to tell anybody how to heal or what they're going to do? But I am going to be the person to tell you. I told you so. So I'm just going to put that out there.
Speaker 4:I think that's a really important point. Self-care is critical, which is why you get to be a camper sometimes, right, you simply emotionally or energetically have to take time off. Nobody can run at 200 percent all the time. I always joke around. I have two speeds, zero and 200 percent, and when I run out of energy I drop like a puppy right where I am. That's it. I have no, I have to rest, or or there's just nothing else.
Speaker 2:I also think they call it ADHD because I'm the same way.
Speaker 2:I could do 50 things at once or nothing at all, like I can't just do one thing. I don't know why, I just can't do it. And my workday I end the day with what I started that morning. Because I started it, I skipped it. I went to something else. I got like 15,000 emails open. Of course they'll be like did you see this email? I'd be like, yeah, I'm going to get it. I get it, but I opened it, read it, I got to think about it. Now I'm moving on to something else. It's like yeah, I don't, I got to learn how to organize that.
Speaker 4:You know, what helped me focus was a meditation practice. It's it really changed my life.
Speaker 2:I practice, it really changed my life. I can't get my brain to slow down enough and people be like, oh, that's an excuse, and I done, did the whole reggae master. And I had some guy, one of our guests, gave me like a free session and I'm like I promise, I'm trying not to think, but it just won't shut off right now. So I'm like you know what mind? When you ready to learn how to meditate, let me know, because I'm tired of trying. Okay, because I'm a failure at this, I can't meditate. Do you like music?
Speaker 4:I do music can be an entree.
Speaker 2:Sound can be a wonderful entree into meditation right well you know, I did I did realize that, that I listen to music and I listen to the most random, probably, playlists on the history of the world, because we go from rock to classical to rap, r&b. Celine Dion, like I listen to Dionne Warwick okay, no, she is, she's wonderful, but it's just most people be like what bro, what that is what friends are for. But, um, really, but it did. I did learn by, like creating this playlist. When I put it on a night it does like help me sleep, like it helps me fall asleep, but it does help me quiet my brain, cause then I ended up singing the songs and that doesn't enough. So you're right, maybe that is a form of meditation. You know, maybe I'm kind of doing the song and now I could drift off, because if I don't have music child, I don't think about next week, I'm already playing in the 31st, and it's only the third.
Speaker 3:I find that you could be doing things as well that are very meditative, like when I used to run. I would just go out and just pound the pavement and just you know, I put my headphones in, I'd go out there with a bunch of stuff in my mind and I would just run and just be in my zone, where it's just one step after the next and it was a very meditative like in, and I'd come back and just kind of, you know, I physically just exhausted but then gotten a bunch of stuff off my mind and found that was good for me, cause, like you said, mike, I have a hard time just sitting down and being like don't think of anything, like well, I've got like six things to do, so I'm going to think about those six things.
Speaker 2:I was just thinking that I keep forgetting my holy water, because every time you mention exercise, I'm going to start spraying your ass. That's a bad word on this podcast.
Speaker 4:I have a deal with a friend of mine who's actually an ex-professional athlete, so you know I'm being held to high standards. If I don't hit my number of workouts per week that we agreed to, I owe her $10. And the same thing for her. If she doesn't hit hers, she owes me $10. No one has paid anybody so far, no matter what we are pushing ourselves and getting those workouts in.
Speaker 2:You know, my hypothalamus is messed up from chemo and all the other crap that happens to me. So I really I overheat too quickly working out, so I really don't do it and I'm pretty sure that I probably could find some exercise to do. But once I realized that I overheat and I get sick, I was like, oh, excuse, Nope.
Speaker 4:I can't work out. My doctor said I can't do it.
Speaker 4:Well you know, ever since chemo I've had, it was interesting for me. I'm like a walking example of neuroplasticity, because I went from being very left-brained and I had a terrible chemo brain. It was so bad. I broke down crying in Costco one day because I couldn't enter a four-digit pin and I found that I couldn't do any of the linear things I used to do, the big spreadsheets. I mean, I got out of Wharton, I went to work in finance. I can do this stuff without even thinking about it, couldn't do it anymore and I found that what happened between just meditation helped a lot and changing my orientations. My right brain started to develop much more and now, as a result, I'm more right-brained than left-brained, though I can do things on both sides, but my ability to do really detailed linear things is not very high. Yeah, the chemo changed that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it made me sensitive, right. So I cry to everything now and I'm one of those people, like that, never cried. I cry so much that I know when it's about to be sensitive and I start crying even before the sensitive moment happens, you've been thinking about it.
Speaker 2:I'm like he about to propose, he about to do it any minute now, and I watch a lot of TV with my mother and she'd be so mad at me. She'd be like why the fuck are you crying? You know, she's a typical Puerto Rican mom, so I got the chunk a couple of times, but you know and he forgets names. And that's the other thing with names, that was a big one with me. Not that I forget them, I just confuse them.
Speaker 4:So everybody is everybody else.
Speaker 2:Especially if your name got the same initial.
Speaker 4:Oh, you fucked up. I have a good visual memory. I have to work harder at some other things and I used to have such a good visual memory. I could, you know, think of a place in a book and almost go to it, and that would you know, make me remember whatever it was I wanted to remember. Can't do that anymore.
Speaker 2:And I can lose whatever I just had. Can you do that, pat? Oh, absolutely. Whatever I just had. Can you do that, pat? Oh, absolutely, I could just have it. It was just in my hands. I'm at the car. How the hell you lose the car keys? And you're at the car. I had to lock my front door. Where the hell are the car keys? It is the most ridiculous thing.
Speaker 4:I'm taking age as my excuse. I walk around the house with my cheaters on my head and I go. Where are my glasses?
Speaker 2:Oh my head and I go, where are my glasses? And you know what else I started doing thinking too much. It's gonna be my last example. I was, uh, vacuuming and there was a piece of thread on the floor. And I'm vacuuming, vacuuming, vacuuming. The thread wouldn't pick up. So I bend down and pick up the thread, examine it and then put it back on the floor because I need to figure out why the hell did vacuum. And then I realized, like bro, you just had it in your hand, it was on the floor, you know. But I didn't understand what the hell was special about this thread. The vacuum won't pick it up, like this was some extra super duper special, like whoever made that thread.
Speaker 1:God bless you. It didn't pick it up.
Speaker 2:I still had to end up picking it up, but yeah, it just stung and clang, you know it cl.
Speaker 4:Just stung and clang. You know clang like when I fall in love. I want to fall in love like that thread.
Speaker 2:I'm not sure I follow that. I won't be stuck. Probably a little psycho.
Speaker 3:But we can talk about me later pat, you talked about your uh, your happy places before and you mentioned a number of things and I obviously don't know you that well. We did a podcast together, but I would venture to say that podcasting is a happy place for you because you're such a natural at it, like we. From our initial 30-minute or 20-minute, whatever conversation about the podcast and then our podcast itself. It was such a wonderful exchange. Much like this. One is off, obviously, but you're so natural at it. It just seems like you're enjoying being there so much. Would you consider it to be one of your happy places and one of the things you really enjoy doing?
Speaker 4:Yeah, the thing is I really enjoy and I really appreciate people's stories. I, in a very heartfelt way, I connect with them and I want to bring out their best in terms of a podcast. I want them to shine. The purpose of my podcast isn't for me to talk about me, it's to get my guest to highlight my guest, and that's actually why I started doing some really short podcasts. I call them side trips. They're usually five minutes or less, because then I can talk about whatever I want to talk about. But for me, I don't want to interject that into my guest story. I want them to shine.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it really comes off. Make sure you guys check out Bump of the Road podcast, especially the Jonathan Neisel episode. I'm going to get the editor to wipe it out. Leave it in.
Speaker 2:Don't be promoting nobody else. No, I'm really just.
Speaker 4:I'll be in touch when it gets ready to come up. So you know we'll discuss the best way to get that out.
Speaker 2:Now, once again, I guess, going back to mental health, what, when, when was like your revelation. When did you know, when did you see the light that this was time to kind of start making a difference and kind of following that light per se?
Speaker 4:Mental health is so important and it's something that we still don't discuss that much in society and we never used to discuss it, discuss that much in society and we never used to discuss it. I think certainly cancer was the point where I realized I had to take care of my mental health because it was. I went through six years of on again, off again treatment, I mean in three rounds of chemo. It was brutal. So cancer, I would say, was the point where mental health really became of paramount importance. So cancer, I would say, was the point where mental health really became of paramount importance. But looking back, there have been all these little blips that have happened over time that also led up to that.
Speaker 4:Part of mental health for me is finding peace of mind, which is one of the reasons I meditate. I found unbeknownst to me at the time I wasn't thinking about mental health or peace, but flying. I found enormous peace, enormous terror too, but enormous peace. It was just so beautiful, such a privilege. I mean to run down a mountain at 200 miles an hour and to see the earth from above like that. It's just incredible. So I think that that those types of experiences contributed to my real aha moment, which was one of much needed self-care. Much needed control over my thoughts. Much needed a much greatly needed ability to release things that weren't working for me.
Speaker 2:needed ability to release things that weren't working for me. Now is that something that you can really do, like have control over your thoughts.
Speaker 4:At least I'm a yes and no. I mean, like everybody else, I have my bad days, but generally one of the things that meditation has taught me, it has taught me to observe my thoughts. So when I get into a negative mindset, I can see it and I know for a fact it's not real, it's not benefiting me and it's not where I want to be. So I have a conscious choice to make and I know going down the rat hole, the negativity rat hole, will get me absolutely nowhere. And some days you know it's hard to say I'm not going there. I mean, everybody experiences this. But when you have conscious choice, you know maybe there's something that breaks that thought pattern. Maybe you can go for a walk, maybe you can listen to music, maybe you can go work out. Whatever it is that works for you that helps pull you back from that abyss and keep you on the sunny side of the slope abyss and keep you on the sunny side of the slope.
Speaker 2:You're lucky, I didn't have no holy water too, pat. I'm just letting you know. You said work out, you just about to get it.
Speaker 4:You know it's hard, it's like. You know, I applied for several book awards I don't know about any of the others and I assumed I didn't get anything, which, since it's my first book, this is not a big assumption and it wouldn't be surprising, but it's still. You know, you still feel a little hurt, like gosh. They didn't like it at all. So when I found out that I did get an award, it was like oh yes, you know, it's like the old Sally Fields moment they like me.
Speaker 2:They really like you. And congratulations again. And it's amazing it's kind of dope that you found that out today while you're with us Well, not that you're while you're with us, but that you got to celebrate with us a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thank you, that's cool. And then, of course, we want to get a copy of the book, but I want an autograph, so we're going to have to work that out. We can do that. Okay, just let me and we'll buy it. So we support, we just want, you know, the extra, you know, to my best friend, michael Bravery. Thanks for all your encouraging words. I'll tell you what to put in there later.
Speaker 4:You tell me what to put. You've got it. And I'll tell you what you don't have to buy the book, but you can subscribe to my podcast through Substack and support me there.
Speaker 2:Definitely, definitely, yeah, and we have all of your links and hope that all of our audience does the same thing. But before we go, I did want to ask is there anything that you want to share with our audience that Jonathan didn't give you a chance to share Because, you know, he just kind of talks too much sometimes? I just know that.
Speaker 4:No, I would say that you have an opportunity to take charge of your life wherever you are, and sometimes it is incredibly difficult and all you can muster is the tiniest baby step, but that's okay. One baby step leads to another and that's how real change occurs. It doesn't happen in a flash or overnight, and you have to be kind and patient with yourself, you have to be gentle and you have to absolutely know that there is something better on the other side. Don't get caught up in your negative thoughts. Know, accept, trust that there is something better out there for you.
Speaker 2:And then one last question Any advice that you can give our audience, especially for people who don't feel like they don't know how they can start the healing process. You know we people think it's easy oh, if you want to do it, you can do it. People really don't think that they could just do it. So what would be your advice on a starting point, or a good starting point, for someone who doesn't know where to start?
Speaker 4:Oh, you won't like my answer, but that's okay. I would say meditation is a really good place to start, and you can find meditation in a sport, you can find it walking, you can find it in nature, you can find it through sound. There are a million different ways to get into a meditative state, just like you do before you go to bed at night, listening to music and starting to wind down. And the reason meditation is important? There are a few reasons. One it gives you the ability to observe your thoughts, which is invaluable, and that leads to conscious choice. Now you can make conscious choices about where you're going.
Speaker 4:But meditation is also experiential, and let me explain what I mean by that. It's like eating chocolate. Okay, you can read about chocolate all day long. There's dark chocolate, there's milk chocolate, there's white chocolate, coconut nuts you name your combination but reading about chocolate doesn't tell you what the experience of eating chocolate is like. That's experiential. Well, in the same way, meditation is experiential and you can experience peace and joy and expansiveness and connectiveness, and once you experience that, it's part of you and you take it wherever you go. So things like road rage are a thing of the past. Maybe judgment becomes something that's much less prominent in your life. So I would say that meditation, finding a source to quieting your mind, is a really important step in terms of navigating your way through just about anything.
Speaker 2:Right, and that was a really good answer. We're going to give you some, uh, the chocolate, the chocolate, yeah, okay, that was dope. We give you snaps for that one. Jonathan, any last words? Last minute words for the people.
Speaker 3:No, I just want to echo what Pat said. I mean, I think, as you guys know, I play hockey, I play a lot of hockey and that's you know. When I'm out there on the ice I have to be totally present and follow the puck and watch the other players and that's a big meditative thing for me and I get to be around my friends and stuff like that. It gets me out of the house, because otherwise, but yes, it's a very important thing. Like, like Pat said, meditation looks like a lot of different things for a lot of different people. So just try out and see what works for you.
Speaker 2:And Crystal what you got for us.
Speaker 1:I really want to see the video.
Speaker 4:I'm sending that video over to you.
Speaker 2:Please make sure you say what you got for the people. Stop being selfish.
Speaker 4:Well, I mean if that helped her out, you know.
Speaker 2:If we could get you flying, I'll throw your ass in a plane. What is it called? I will put you right in a glider.
Speaker 2:You know, I hear that when I send you these links, your jaw will drop and we're sitting here and we're talking about meditation and we're talking about all those things. And you're right, I wasn't going to like it, like your answer, and I realized I might have to get a whole lot of holy water if you keep talking about some damn hockey, jonathan. But no, really, no, it's a really good answer. I really wish that I could meditate Trust. I tried really hard at it, but you know, I realized that's kind of the point of all of our messages is that you know we all have things that we need to deal with. There are so many methods to deal with it. There's so many ways to get you out on the other side so that you can actually see the bigger picture. And that bigger picture is life, a good life, a happy life, whatever kind of life that you want. And that is the. And, in fact, if you want to know, I actually have to wake up. The same way I go to sleep. So I go to sleep, the music and I wake up the music, and then it has to be a song that is going to get me singing, because if it's not, I'm not going to wake up. Yeah, so my brain is weird like that. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Of course, we're going to support you. We're going to follow you on all of your socials. We're going to follow you on all of your socials. We're going to make sure we subscribe to your podcast and I'm actually going to listen to some episodes. Check you out. I might be sending you some emails like what do you mean by this and what do you mean by this, because I always want to know the roots. But it was a pleasure coming on. Ashley, you got anything you want to say to the people? Are you good? All right, thank you guys for watching. Thanks again, pat and uh, we will see you next week. Peace, love and blessings.